Sheen: [he begins by talking about how his character in the film is in a dark place and is in despair over the loss of his son and goes on to say the following about his character in the interview] "...somewhere in some mysterious part of his being there's a yearning for transcendence and he grabs it, and he decides to make this journey for his son, in fact he's making it for himself, but he doesn't come to that realization 'til he's well into the journey...but I think all of us are looking for a sense of transcendence, you know, who am I, why am I here?" [can anybody say Theology of the Body!? These are the very questions that TOB and our Faith seek to answer. The 'yearning for transcendence' is that longing in the human heart for God Himself. He is the Transcendent One - we are drawn to the higher realities of life, like truth, beauty and goodness, because we are drawn to God who is Truth, Beauty and Goodness itself - you can imagine what I looked like in my car when I was hearing him say this! haha!]
Alexanian: "Simplifying your life doesn't mean that you're missing out on something; it actually means that you're gaining everything." [boy, is that true - when you live simply you are set free of becoming attached to things and therefore have more of an opportunity to enter into the transcendent realities of truth, beauty and goodness thereby growing in deeper relationship with God Himself. Notice that the majority of saints lived very simply whether they were married, religious or single, they were able to be detached from the things of the world in order to attach themselves to the things of God - or better yet, God Himself. Our culture has such a hard time with this because we are so desperately seeking God - but seeking Him in the wrong places, so we continually to try to fill our longings with more stuff, more relationships, more money, etc., etc., and the more stressed and lost we become because we have packed so much stuff around us that we can't even see ahead of us anymore - but the good news is that God can break through even the most cluttered piles that lay within our hearts and clean it up so that we can have peace resting in Him, realizing that He alone can satisfy all our longings. So Alexanian's quote is quite correct because when we live simply we have more room for God and in letting Him in we most certainly gain everything.]
Estevez: "...it has nothing to do with religion...it has everything to do with finding out who we are." [then he quotes a line from the movie: "Religion has nothing to do with this, nothing at all."] [I disagree with this statement because finding out who we are is essentially finding out who God is and discovering who we are in relation to Him. Isn't that what religion is about? The two really can't be separated, can they? Even someone who doesn't profess a particular religion is likely searching for the transcendent and we just discussed how ultimately that means searching for God - and that's a religious activity whether we label it so or not. I think I understand why he is saying that the movie isn't about religion - it could obviously turn some people off from watching it if were labeled as a religious movie, but I think it's a little much to say that it, especially if you're talking about the Camino itself, has nothing at all to do with religion. The Camino very much has to do with religion - it's a Catholic pilgrimage site. It seems that the world wants nothing to do with religion at times because of misconceptions, unfaithful examples, etc., but religion isn't a bad thing when seen in light of the truth. I doubt he would disagree with that, but was simply wanting to convey that the movie isn't just for people who consider themselves religious.]
Sheen: "...works of art...have to cost you something if they have value, otherwise you're gonna question it's value...I believe pilgrimage takes place in our own heart...you do have to be open to transcendence in your own heart [then he talks a little about having a balance between the spirit and flesh]...you have to give yourself time for the journey...you have to be willing to open up your grip on yourself [then he talks about community and 'what a wonderful thing that is.'] [Obviously the quote about something having value and it costing you is huge and there's lots of things to say about that, but he talks about that more later so I'll hit on that when he expounds on it, so let's look at the part about pilgrimaging in your heart - how true is that? Very. The ultimate pilgrimage that we are all on is that pilgrimage to the Heavenly Jerusalem and we get there through the path of the cross. This means prayer and charity. When we enter into prayer we are making a pilgrimage in our hearts hoping to arrive at the destination of Heaven. It's also awesome how he mentions having a balance between the spirit and flesh - talk about TOB - the integration between the body and soul is definitely part of this pilgrimage we are all on - and it is a journey that takes time - we don't get there in an instant and we don't fully reach it until Heaven. It's also lovely how he mentions the beauty of the community of humanity - that we're all in this together and life is about relationships - with God and with one another.]
Estevez: "...we live in a culture that says, 'take this pill and you'll be happy', 'go on this diet and you'll be thinner', 'have your teeth brightened and people will love you more', and on and on and its false... none of that stuff makes you happier..." [whoa. preach it brotha! Live simply - authentic happiness is found in God, not liposuction.]
Estevez: "...I make movies that are personal, that are a reflection of climbing a little higher in that tree, ya know, this cynical and pessimistic, that vibe is a low hanging fruit and it's a go-to fruit which is why so many of us have become cynical and pessimistic, and so I invite people to climb a little higher in the tree and taste fruit that's a little sweeter and the view is certainly a lot better...it requires some effort..."
Interviewer: "what's the cost?"
Estevez: "Well, you don't always have a lot of people that wanna climb up in that tree with you. Whether it works or not a hundred percent, I don't know, but I know that I feel better about the types of pictures I'm making...if it doesn't cost you anything, you question its value." [I love it! This analogy of inviting us to a higher place in the tree for tastier fruit and a better view - wow, wow, wow. Again, TOB and the Faith so so so soooo evident here. The Church doesn't impose the truth, She proposes it. It's an invitation to discover the fruit that satiates the hunger. "...whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst..." - John 4:14. Why don't you find a lot of people that want to climb up the tree with you? Because it takes effort and sacrifice.]
Interviewer: What did you learn [in making the movie] and what did it cost?
Sheen starts off his answer with an Irish story about a man who dies and goes to the gates of Heaven and asks St. Peter for entrance and Peter replies, 'of course, just show us your scars'. The man replies, 'I have no scars.' Peter then says, 'what a pity. was there nothing worth fighting for?'
Sheen: "I think we have to find something in our lives worth fighting for...no one has ever made a valid or meaningful contribution to humanity or themselves really without suffering. It has to cost you something and very often the more it costs you the more important it is that you keep doing what you're doing..."[w.h.o.a. awesome. The very life of Jesus Christ proves everything that he just said. We must have scars because there must be something worth fighting for. God loves you so much and values your worth so much that He was willing to receive scars for you. Will you be willing to receive scars for love of Him? The things that are most valuable are the things worth fighting for and dying for - and what is most valuable aren't even actually things - they are God, people and the transcendent realities. Suffering is the soil from which beauty springs. The most beautiful realities in the world are the ones that involve sacrifice: the crucifix, the Eucharist, a baby, an elderly person, friendship, love, peace, marriage, etc. There is no authentic beauty and no authentic love without sacrifice. Think about the fact that God knew it would cost Him dearly - the death of His Only-Begotten Son - to create you, but here you are because He loves you. If you ever doubt your value, simply look at the crucifix and there you will remember your worth.]
Great interview. Wouldn't it be awesome if more movie interviews were like that one? If you want to listen to the whole thing you can click here and scroll down to find the Thursday, October 13 Podcast with Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez. The interview is in the middle of the podcast starting at about 43 minutes remaining in the show so you'll have to wait until it gets through the first interview of the program with another guest. Here's the trailer for the movie:
As mentioned earlier, I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen the trailer and clips from the movie and it looks to have a really great message and it's promoting the Camino in a way, of course, so that's wonderful, but I thought I could also use this as a catechetical opportunity regarding what the Church teaches about burial, cremation and the resurrection of the body. You'll notice in the trailer that the son's remains are in a box after he had been cremated and the father decides to hike the Camino while carrying the box and all kinds of problems in that regard ensue.
What does the Church teach regarding cremation and the sprinkling of ashes?
Catechism 2300 & 2301:
The bodies of the dead must be treated with respect and charity, in faith and hope of the Resurrection. The burial of the dead is a corporal work of mercy; it honors the children of God, who are temples of the Holy Spirit.
...The Church permits cremation, provided that it does not demonstrate a denial of faith in the resurrection of the body.The Church recognizes that the body is not simply a shell for the soul but that our humanity is an integration of both the body and the soul - both of which were created by God and are, therefore, good and sacred. A major theme that we profess as Christians is the resurrection of the body. We believe that God will raise up the body again to have eternal life in union with the soul. We believe this because that is what happened to Jesus - He rose from the dead, body and soul - even still retaining His holy wounds as reminders of His great love for us. So the body is not simply something disposable or something with which we can just do whatever we want. This is why burying the dead is a corporal work of mercy. Throughout history some would cremate the body as a denial of the doctrine of the resurrection of the body, therefore the Church did not permit cremation until recently. Now cremation is allowed as long as it is not being done as a denial of the resurrection of the body. Burial is obviously preferred, but cremation can be permitted. However, even when cremation is permitted and done, the scattering of the ashes or keeping the ashes in a home or anywhere other than a tomb or grave is not permitted for the very reasons demonstrated in the trailer of the movie. For example, there is a scene where his backpack, which contained the box with his son's ashes, falls into a river; a scene where someone steals the backpack which again contained the ashes, etc. I remember watching an episode of Family Matters once where the ashes of one of the family members was kept on the mantle of the fireplace, the urn fell on the groud, the ashes went everywhere and they ended up cleaning up this person's ashes with the household vacuum cleaner. You can easily see the wisdom in the Church in not permitting cremated remains to be kept anywhere other than a tomb or grave. Out of a sacred reverence for the body which God created and which will rise on the last day, the ashes may not be kept or scattered. Quite a wise and reverent discipline. You can read more about all of this at Catholics United for the Faith.
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